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Talk:Alben Barkley
The Hot War Is there a citing for the page in Fallout referenced in the article? There is only a footnote to the e-book version. Does that version have a line not in the print form? I can't find any reference to Barkley's death in the book. I only find references to the deaths of W. Averell Harriman, Hubert Humphrey, Estes Kefauver, George Marshall, Joseph McCarthy, Robert Taft, Bess Truman, and Margaret Truman.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 03:52, September 22, 2016 (UTC) :When Truman hears Washington is destroyed, he realizes Barkley is still there. Pg. 386 print version. TR (talk) 03:59, September 22, 2016 (UTC) ::In the copy I'm holding, 386 is part of the final scene of chapter 24, Boris Gribkov's POV of dropping the bomb on Washington.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 04:14, September 22, 2016 (UTC) :::Go a few pages ahead to the scene where Truman finds out, then. TR (talk) 04:21, September 22, 2016 (UTC) :::On page 389, Truman thinks to himself, "Was Alben Barkley still alive?" and Barkley is never mentioned again.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 11:46, September 23, 2016 (UTC) ::::Indeed. If he were alive, I think someone would have said so. TR (talk) 14:21, September 23, 2016 (UTC) :::::I'm not so sure. We've seen people survive being in cities that have gotten hit in this timeline, and Observatory Circle is not that close to the Mall. Barkley's no Paul Atreides, a superhuman who can't be counted out till we've seen the body, but he's also obscure enough that his survival wouldn't necessarily be worth mentioning. Conversely, the casualty list Finch runs through seemed extensive, and Barkley wasn't on it. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:28, September 24, 2016 (UTC) ::::::Observatory Circle wasn't the VP residence until after JFK. Before that the VP just lived in his personal residence. I have no idea where Barkley lived at this time. TR (talk) 04:32, September 24, 2016 (UTC) ::::::The fact that Barkley wasn't on Finch's list made me think he isn't counted out yet, so it puzzled me when I saw the list of his death on his page. HT may be hedging his bets on this one, and we won't really know until Volume 3 comes out, if even then. It may be best to take Barkley out of the dead lists until V3 has been read, replacing it with an "ongoing series" label, followed by a lit comm explaining that Barkley's fate is not specified within Fallout.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 02:41, September 24, 2016 (UTC) :::::::No one says "Well, it's a good thing we still have our VP and our POTUS." Under the circumstances, I think that it's rational to have that moment. I see no value in rewriting the articles when the text is pointing towards him being dead. TR (talk) 03:20, September 24, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::There isn't enough space left in the book to discuss Barkley in full. HT might pull a fast one on us on the first page of V3. "Harry Truman sat in a bunker under Fort Leavenworth. He reflected on the down-but-not-out state of the US government at this time. VP Alben Barkley, who had gone on errand to Rockville, Maryland on the day the Reds obliterated Washington, and had been just far away enough from the city to be safe from the blast, was holed up in a similar structure in the North Dakota wilderness." It wouldn't be the first time HT did something like that. Until V3 actually comes out, we just don't know.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 03:28, September 24, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::What space? It would take three words: "Barkley is alive." You don't need much space for that. If HT pulls a fast one, then great, we'll remove him. But right now, everything says "Barkley is dead." TR (talk) 03:40, September 24, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::Think I'm still with Jonathan here. Everything points to Barkley being unaccounted for, not dead. Millions and millions of people have survived being in nuked cities in this timeline. Turtle Fan (talk) 03:52, September 24, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::Fine. This is not the hill to die on. TR (talk) 04:32, September 24, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::I guess ML4E will be the tie breaker.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 05:09, September 24, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::Oh my. I'll need to take a look at the book and get back to everyone. ML4E (talk) 17:30, September 24, 2016 (UTC) All right I took a look at the references to Barkley in FO. It is curious that while Barkley's name was mentioned as a possible Democratic nominee at Aaron Finch's birthday party, along with a half dozen other names, everybody but Barkley is mentioned as either dead or alive in the TV broadcasts that Finch watches after the bombing. It is slightly suggestive but then again it could be that the US VP is worth a bucket of warm whatever and so HT didn't bother with him. I think we leave the article as is and then change it as appropriate if there is new information in the next book. ML4E (talk) 18:27, September 25, 2016 (UTC) Armistice I just rolled back Jonathan's addition of the previously discussed Lit. Comm. since I see that TR had removed it a week earlier on the 21st. I find Jonathan's actions presumptuous and think this needs further discussion based on Armistice. I have been notified by my local library that a copy is ready for pick-up so I haven't read it yet but will shortly. ML4E (talk) 15:36, July 29, 2017 (UTC) One idea that occurred to me on rereading the Hot War subsection is to make the Lit. Comm. into a footnote to his death year i.e. (1877-1952Footnote#). :Footnote# Barkley's death isn't referenced but never mentioned subsequent to the atomic bombing. That is, if the consensus is it needs noting at all. ML4E (talk) 15:47, July 29, 2017 (UTC) :Well, slight spoiler, ML4E, but Barkley's name is never referenced in Armistice. Given the decisions Truman makes, a living Barkley would have an opinion of some sort. We also again learn that, aside from Truman, most of the executive branch is toast. The note is overkillTR (talk) 16:18, July 29, 2017 (UTC) ::I agree about the Lit. Comm. being overkill but thinking about a footnote made me consider its purpose. Its to cite the source for a particular piece of information. If, for example, in Truman's first scene in Armistice he had thought about Barkley being dead along with the other leadership contenders then we would add a sentence to that effect and put a footnote to the page. In this case, we don't have any references to him subsequent to the bombing and so conclude he is dead and include a YoB-YoD at the start of the sub-section. I'm thinking that a footnote like the one I suggested above would be in order to provide the justification for concluding he is dead. However, this isn't a hill for me to die on. ML4E (talk) 19:07, July 30, 2017 (UTC) :::I suppose the note is unobtrusive. TR (talk) 19:40, July 30, 2017 (UTC)